Brighty
New Member
Regeneration is not for Time Lords alone...
Posts: 16 
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Post by Brighty on Aug 11, 2013 22:41:50 GMT
What a sad little chapter in Beau Peep Forum history this has been.
It would appear that the upshot is that we now have two forums. This shiny new one, courtesy of Peepsie, and the 'old' one, now rehosted for at least the next three years, courtesy of Mince along with mystery benefactor(s). I'd personally like to thank all concerned for each, and acknowledge that both Mince and Peepmaster are (and long have been) integral to the good running of the Beau Peep Forum, and are worthy of high praise for all they have both done over the years, in spite of their petulance and mutual loathing, which has, for the most part, been highly entertaining to observe. That is until this latest chapter, which has actually threatened to over-spill into seriousness.
However, it does seem that we have arrived at not only a solution, but one that provides options, possibly even a dilemma. Two forums (fora?) - can we make use of both, or do we opt for one over the other? For me, the choice is simple. Much as I admire the golden look of this shiny new forum, it seems to me that it comes down to a simple choice between this, with its much-admired 'like' button, or the good old boards that have served us so well in recent years, and which have the weight of those years still attached. By that, I mean all the old posts remain intact, thanks to Mince's determination to preserve all of our old drivel, rather than disposing of it (something I believe he deserves our thanks for, and not some of the rather unjust comments directed at him of late). I know his bedside manner can leave a lot to be desired, but I believe he has always had this place's best interests at heart, with precious little in the way of thanks by return. And of course, I include myself in that. So, thank you, Mincey.
Of course, I wouldn't blame anyone for challenging any concern I'm showing now, on the grounds that I've contributed very little in recent times. But with well over 4000 posts to my name (okay - so I was Tarks), every one an incisive and important contribution (koff koff!), second only to Peepmaster and Mince themselves, I think I have earned the right to care about the history of that place, and be forgiven for wanting to preserve it so that students and enthusiasts of the reason we are all gathered here, may in future have the opportunity to enjoy our collective drivel as enthusiastically as we have delivered it over the years. I may be a master of self-delusion, but I happen to think we have created an important body of work there, and would like that to continue.
So my own preference is to thank Peepsie for his swift work in setting up this safety net, but rather than look a gift horse in the mouth, I'd prefer it if we continued where we left off, and carried on using the 'old' forum which Mince has now reinstated and is assured and paid for at least the next three years.
The alternative is keeping that one as an archive, whilst enjoying the fresh furniture in this new one, but I think that would be a bit of a waste of the full 'story' wrapped up in cameldung. What do you think?
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Post by Peepmaster on Aug 11, 2013 23:06:23 GMT
What a sad little chapter in Beau Peep Forum history this has been. It would appear that the upshot is that we now have two forums. This shiny new one, courtesy of Peepsie, and the 'old' one, now rehosted for at least the next three years, courtesy of Mince along with mystery benefactor(s). I'd personally like to thank all concerned for each, and acknowledge that both Mince and Peepmaster are (and long have been) integral to the good running of the Beau Peep Forum, and are worthy of high praise for all they have both done over the years, in spite of their petulance and mutual loathing, which has, for the most part, been highly entertaining to observe. That is until this latest chapter, which has actually threatened to over-spill into seriousness. However, it does seem that we have arrived at not only a solution, but one that provides options, possibly even a dilemma. Two forums (fora?) - can we make use of both, or do we opt for one over the other? For me, the choice is simple. Much as I admire the golden look of this shiny new forum, it seems to me that it comes down to a simple choice between this, with its much-admired 'like' button, or the good old boards that have served us so well in recent years, and which have the weight of those years still attached. By that, I mean all the old posts remain intact, thanks to Mince's determination to preserve all of our old drivel, rather than disposing of it (something I believe he deserves our thanks for, and not some of the rather unjust comments directed at him of late). I know his bedside manner can leave a lot to be desired, but I believe he has always had this place's best interests at heart, with precious little in the way of thanks by return. And of course, I include myself in that. So, thank you, Mincey. Of course, I wouldn't blame anyone for challenging any concern I'm showing now, on the grounds that I've contributed very little in recent times. But with well over 4000 posts to my name (okay - so I was Tarks), every one an incisive and important contribution (koff koff!), second only to Peepmaster and Mince themselves, I think I have earned the right to care about the history of that place, and be forgiven for wanting to preserve it so that students and enthusiasts of the reason we are all gathered here, may in future have the opportunity to enjoy our collective drivel as enthusiastically as we have delivered it over the years. I may be a master of self-delusion, but I happen to think we have created an important body of work there, and would like that to continue. So my own preference is to thank Peepsie for his swift work in setting up this safety net, but rather than look a gift horse in the mouth, I'd prefer it if we continued where we left off, and carried on using the 'old' forum which Mince has now reinstated and is assured and paid for at least the next three years. The alternative is keeping that one as an archive, whilst enjoying the fresh furniture in this new one, but I think that would be a bit of a waste of the full 'story' wrapped up in cameldung. What do you think? Thanks, Steve. That's nicely put. I would have liked nothing more than to have maintained the status quo. Unfortunately, I had an email out of the blue last week saying, (in his sardonic way), that Mince was no longer an Admin, and that the forum was closing. I then was told that a new home had to be found for the website, and it would cost a lot. People were prepared to spend, so I said, "No" - I can move it and host it for free. Having also been told by Mince that this forum would close today, I hastily, found a new home, and spent hours setting this up. Today I was accused by Mince of being "clueless", as he announced that he had mystery backers who had enabled him to move the previous forum. I posted the emails that Mince sent me, showing what had gone on, and why I had given my time and energy into creating a new forum, and moving the Beau Peep site back to the Easily servers, (where it always was). My posts, outlining my dilemma, and showing the emails I'd received which had caused the mayhem, were rapidly removed from the other forum by Mince. I have been working on this project since I first cerated it in August 2000. I had no desire to have to drop everything and move the website, and create a new forum, this weekend, but I felt it my duty, particularly as I was party to handing some responsibility over to Mince a few years ago. I'm happy to wait and see how things go. The forum has never been the same as it used to be, following changes the last time around. If this place becomes the spiritual home, I'll help contributors to take roles within it, and will be happy to take a back seat. If the other forum which has suddenly been resurrected succeeds, then I'll close this one down. I've put 13 years into Beau Peep. I used to love it. I've done my stint. |
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Post by Diane CBPFC on Aug 12, 2013 2:33:02 GMT
My two cents:
I think Mince should have given more notice about the problems with the old site but seeing that life suddenly went so crap for him that he lost his web hosting ability, I think we should cut him some slack. And probably give him a hug too.
I think it was nice of a couple of people to anonymously fund the old moved forums and nice that Mince moved the past 7 years of valuable contributions there.
I think Peeps did a marvelous job of finding us a new home at the cost of a big chunk of his weekend – and I do like the new place better – love the thumbs ups, not having to spell write etc
My suggestion is that we use the old moved forums for the next three years seeing that somebody has paid for them – then we move to the new forums in 2016.
But if this comes down to a battle of egos and personalities – then I’m with Peeps.
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Post by Mince on Aug 12, 2013 7:47:27 GMT
Unfortunately, I had an email out of the blue last week saying, (in his sardonic way), that Mince was no longer an Admin, and that the forum was closing. I did not say I was closing the forum. I said I had to move it. You said you were busy. I respected that. I then was told that a new home had to be found for the website, and it would cost a lot. People were prepared to spend, so I said, "No" - I can move it and host it for free. You wrongly accused me of abandoning everyone. You uttered not a word of thanks for the seven years that I put into the site (and still have not), nor did you (as I had) respect that I had done my stint. You then moved the www.beaupeep.com website to your host without even asking me, told Roger and others not to pay without discussing this with me first, and suggested the free hosting, without asking anyone whether they wanted to keep the old posts. This was after I had spent two days asking for money for hosting and after several people had expressed a willingness to pay. Having also been told by Mince that this forum would close today, I hastily, found a new home, and spent hours setting this up. Where does hastily come in? You did not need to do anything. Don't make yourself out to be the saviour of cameldung. I promised to transfer to a new host and I kept my promise. You told me by PM that you had done your stint and were too busy to do anything, so I did not involve you. Then, just when everything is sorted and seven people besides Roger had said they were okay with paying, you jumped in, insulted me, accused me of letting everyone down, and started moving things without asking, saving the board from the menace of Mince asking for money to host the forum. And then you were surprised I was slightly offended? Today I was accused by Mince of being "clueless", as he announced that he had mystery backers who had enabled him to move the previous forum. That was actually me giving you the benefit of the doubt. And stop calling them mystery backers. Several members publicly on the forums offered to pay and said it was not a problem. Did it ever occur to you that the "backers" wanted to remain anonymous because they did not want to cause more animosity, especially with you? You were on the war path, quite happy to throw away the old posts. You don't know this but several members told me by PM that they did not want this, but did not want to get into the fight. I posted the emails that Mince sent me, showing what had gone on, and why I had given my time and energy into creating a new forum, and moving the Beau Peep site back to the Easily servers, (where it always was). Why did you move the website without asking me first? Why did you not discuss anything with me before jumping in? My posts, outlining my dilemma, and showing the emails I'd received which had caused the mayhem, were rapidly removed from the other forum by Mince. They showed fighting and several members who PMd me and emailed me did not like that. So I stopped fighting. I apologised to you on the other forum and then apologised here. I also explained here in another topic why I removed the posts with the fighting, and yet you still characterise this as "rapidly", as though I was hiding them. I don't know what else I can do. But I am not an admin here and I can't delete all the innuendo and propaganda against me here, only answer and explain it in the hope you would also become conciliatory. I understand your dilemma about not wanting everyone to pay, but that did not give you the right to insult me, nor did it give you the right to move everything without asking me or anyone else. I have been working on this project since I first cerated it in August 2000. I had no desire to have to drop everything and move the website, and create a new forum, this weekend, but I felt it my duty, particularly as I was party to handing some responsibility over to Mince a few years ago. And there's the problem. You allowed your sense of duty to override everything else, even to the point of losing all the old posts, something I and some others were not happy with. If your duty was so great, why not just pay the £84 for hosting yourself, as several others offered to do, so that there would be no fighting? Or were you so mad at me that nothing about the board or its members mattered? The forum has never been the same as it used to be, following changes the last time around. And that was another accusation you threw at me, that my seven years looking after the forum basically brought it to its knees, that I had somehow been responsible for the lack of posting. Do you know what that kick in the teeth is like? You continue the innuendo on that one here, saying the forum is now in safe hands. Really? You have lost me as a member. You were willing to lose all the posts. The new hosting could have been paid for, as it now has, and none of this had to happen. I am not saying I am blameless in all this. After accusing me of letting everyone down and being the cause of the lack in posts, I actually wanted you to waste time on this forum and to see how many of the others would step in to save the posts, or at least defend me, thank me, acknowledge the seven years of work I gave this forum. Several expressed by PM their concern about losing the posts. Only three people thanked me properly, with another today. I eventually moved the old posts for my respect for the anonymous backer. I offered my technical help because this person thanked me for my time. Most of the rest of you rallied around Peepmaster and this forum or just remained silent. I didn't expect you all to get involved in the fight, but after seven years a little support, or thanks - shit, just acknowledgement would not have gone amiss. Did it really take Tark's post for you all to realise that? You are not the saviour, Peepmaster. You just caused a huge mess to save £84, and you did not even succeed in doing that. On one thing we agree, Peepmaster. I wish I had never gotten involved with the cameldung forums seven years ago. |
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Post by rogerkettle on Aug 12, 2013 8:23:08 GMT
I'll return to this later, probably this evening, as I have work to do. My thoughts will be expressed on this forum alone.
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Post by Mince on Aug 12, 2013 8:57:09 GMT
Roger, neither I nor Peepmaster are innocent in this. We should have done better. I would prefer you say nothing critical about him. (That has been my job.  But I know Peepmaster has and always had the good of this forum and its members foremost in mind. Whichever forum you all choose, Peepmaster should be admin. He is now admin on the other forum along with Sandy, who I randomly made admin there because the forum would not let me step down as admin without another admin in place. |
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Post by rogerkettle on Aug 12, 2013 20:21:50 GMT
This has all been extremely depressing.
When Nigel and I first came in contact, back in 1999, we decided it would be nice to have some kind of Beau Peep site. The technology at the time was young-ish and was a complete mystery to me. (Pause for "there's a surprise" jokes). Nigel spent a an awful lot of time setting up the website and organising companies to handle the merchandisng side (mugs and tee-shirts). He did this without any payment from me. He also took on the resposibility of running and administrating the site. When it went online, my original intention was to only contribute when there was a direct question about Beau Peep but, of course, it soon became a social site with minimal cartoon content and I loved it. I made a lot of friends. When Mince arrived on the scene, seven years ago(?), his input was both prodigious and welcome. He soon suggested improvements and a willingness to upgrade and help run the site. I was wary at first, on the grounds that he had barely been around, but felt that this would relieve the pressure on Nigel, who had put in so much time and effort, so I agreed to the change. Mince, you seem to think you got little thanks for this but I certainly expressed mine on several occasions---as did others. Your input was greatly appreciated and remains so.
I was startled when you announced recently that the forum was to close and needed immediate help/finance/administration to continue. I was also extremely touched by the immediate financial help offered by several people on ths site, despite my promise to cover all costs. In a private message to me, you gave another reason for the imminent closure which, in respect, I will not repeat. Given the seriousness of the situation as you first described it, I think it's remarkable that Nigel managed to get a free, accessible forum in place so quickly. I thank him for that---as I thank the anonymous backers who have allowed the old site to survive. I will miss the old site. It has some happy memories and some desperately sad ones---I will always miss the wonderful Seattle Kate and that sums up how much this site has meant to me over the years. An American woman, who I'd only ever met through her glorious posts on this site, passed away and it affected me far more deeply than I could ever have imagined. That's why I find so much of this recent stuff to be so sad and petty. I've made a lot of friends here and I treasure that.
I may well dip into the old site from time to time for nostalgia's sake, but, in future, I will be posting on here.
Peace. Please.
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Post by Peepmaster on Aug 12, 2013 21:00:39 GMT
Don't be depressed, Roger. I'm not. Creating the Beau Peep site and all the ancillary stuff was a labour of love. I was privileged to have been able to do it. We'll see how the new forum goes. If this one doesn't work I can close it. It's simple enough to do that. I was a bit peeved about the other one being resurrected after I'd worked on creating this, but that was a few days ago, so it's history now. I believe we still have the archives available from the previous forum incarnations that we've had along the way. I never feel a need to consult them, but they're there somewhere. I decided to move the site at the weekend so that no one would have to pay for its hosting. It was clear from messages I was receiving that something would have to be done fast. I own the domain name, and the website, having created it, therefore I was fortunate enough to be in a position where I didn't have to ask the permission of anyone else. I was glad to have also been able to design and produce the merchandise, and do the selling too. Also keeping the accounts, and having them audited annually. It's not hard work now it's up and running, (although the last week has been a bit frenetic). It'll be back to normal now. I won't be deleting threads or posters, (unless we have anything offensive appear), so I hope we can return to the happy ship that once was. I had a very kind email from Rob, which I will respond to once I find his email address. Thanks, Rob! I will post as often as I can, although life has become more hectic for me with the new direction my work has gone into, as well as the expansion of my family. I came to Scotland to wind down, and the opposite seems to have happened. Quite ironic. Now it's time for me to observe things and go with the general consensus, or will of the Beau Peep loyalists! It's been a blast thus far - long may it continue. Roger - you've been very kind to me on numerous occasions, and I have lots of great memories. I'm sure there will be lots more. You're a top bloke, as well as being the wittiest chap in the UK. (Well, Scotland, anyway.)  |
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Post by Mincey on Aug 12, 2013 21:16:42 GMT
I had a very kind email from Rob, which I will respond to once I find his email address. Thanks, Rob! That was kind of him. Out of interest, in his email, which forum did he express a preference for posting on - the one here or the other one with all the old posts. You know how much he loves to have records of the past. Also out of interest, have you yet asked everyone else which one they would prefer to post on? |
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Post by Peepmaster on Aug 12, 2013 21:44:05 GMT
Unfortunately, the messages I received on the other forum were deleted. I won't post them all again, but quite simply, Sandy Buttcheeks and I received a message from Mince announcing that he'd ceased to be an admin, and that Sandy and I were now the only Admins:
This was the message that arrived out of the blue: "Yesterday, the admins were Mince, Tarquin Thunderthighs, and Peepmaster. Today, they are Peepmaster, and Sandy Buttcheeks." It was as blunt as that.
The message added that we would have to find a new host for the forum.
Following further reminders that the hosting was about to end, I suggested we move once again, and the response was that that was a good idea. Hence this new start.
We'll see how things go from here.
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Post by Mincey on Aug 12, 2013 22:08:00 GMT
Rob didn't send you an email, did he? He sent us both a PM on the other board. You received an email because you have your PMs sent to your email account.
And that means you also received my PM by email straight after, namely this one:
I just got a PM from Rob Baker. I believe you did too.
I'd rather we just publicly get on before Roger has to deal with us.
And ultimately, you as founder ought to be the one who decides what we do. I'll go along with whatever you decide.
It's odd that you did not also mention that PM from me when you mentioned Rob's.
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Post by Peepmaster on Aug 12, 2013 22:24:01 GMT
No, I haven't seen that. Did you send it to my gmail account?
I'll check the spam folder - sometimes legitimate stuff goes there and i check it every few days.
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Post by Peepmaster on Aug 12, 2013 22:26:59 GMT
No, I haven't seen that. Did you send it to my gmail account? I'll check the spam folder - sometimes legitimate stuff goes there and i check it every few days. Yes - it's in the Spam folder...  |
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Brighty
New Member
Regeneration is not for Time Lords alone...
Posts: 16
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Post by Brighty on Aug 12, 2013 23:38:16 GMT
This is getting farcical and comical now. Much better!
Okay, regardless of who has done what in the past and who needs more thanks than the other, a forum belongs to its members, and not its founders, administrators, or financial backers. Without members, Ghost Town. That is beginning to look like a distinct possibility if this doesn't come to an end soon.
We have two forums. The way I've observed this unfolding, this one was unnecessary. The good will was in place to continue with the old one and all of its history, whether it be paid for by Roger, or the various members who were queuing up to volunteer donations. Something obviously needed to be done urgently, and it was happening. Next we know, up pops this forum, and all Hell breaks loose.
This forum has a like button, and it's a nice shade of yellow. It took Peepsie some time to set up, but at that time, it wasn't actually needed. The wheels were in motion, thanks to Mince's marshalling, that would ensure the continuity of the existing forum under another host. More importantly, that forum would continue with all of its existing posts still attached. This one does not have any history beyond the past couple of days, and most of that history is far from pleasant.
Some members have been good enough to pay for the existing site to continue when the need arose, and I think it would be rather churlish to now turn our backs on their well-meaning gesture simply because an unnecessary replacement has been created, apparently to save a few bob.
So far, this new forum's identity has been defined by squabbling and petty point scoring, ego against ego. Entertaining as that might be, it pales into insignificance and mild annoyance alongside the treasure trove of laughter, love and emotion enshrined in the other forum.
The old posts are crucial. I can't begin to fathom anyone who doesn't care if they don't exist any more. They are part of every one of us. Yes, there's loads of drivel, but it's our drivel - often very funny, and often revealing. Not as revealing as the non-drivel though. Roger touched on the poignancy of relationships forged in the past between people who have often never physically met each other, and in this forum perhaps more than any other I've been a part of, there has been at times enough warmth and even intimacy (bizarre as that may sound) to generate trust. Trust enough to share very personal experiences and emotions, and while that may sound a risky thing to do, it can be an extremely valuable and rewarding part of this 'community'.
But perhaps above all, we have a legacy there. It's a new kind of legacy. A few short years ago, my father died suddenly and unexpectedly. Not long after that, my mother lost the ability to make any sense of this world, and coherent communication with her no longer exists, and never shall again. It's only now that I realise how little I knew of them both. And there's no-one else left to fill in any gaps about them, or their parents before them. Had these forums been a part of their lives, I would have been able to discover so much more about them. Every post is legacy. They may have written nothing but drivel, but it would have been their drivel, and I would have treasured that.
Lord knows if my grandchildren (all yet to arrive) will ever want to read my drivel, but it would be nice to know it'll still be around for them to discover a bit more about their old Granddad when that time comes. Or even my daughters - four of them, none of whom I've been able to spend as much time with in their lives as I'd have wanted to. And I'd like them to know my 'friends' too, and enjoy their drivel...
Please, friends - let's go home.
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Post by Rob Baker on Aug 12, 2013 23:39:00 GMT
Just to clarify, I sent the (same) PM to Mince and Peepsie to this and the other Forum, just to make sure you received it. Thanks to both of you for your kind words in response, and I'm glad you took it in the manner in which it was intended. Now it’s time to move on. This was in the Forum page of todays Daily Star:  I think the contents should remind us of what this wonderful site is all about: Room for a serious comment about our love of Beau Peep, and plenty more room for a load of other good-humoured gibberish. |
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But I know Peepmaster has and always had the good of this forum and its members foremost in mind. Whichever forum you all choose, Peepmaster should be admin. He is now admin on the other forum along with Sandy, who I randomly made admin there because the forum would not let me step down as admin without another admin in place.
